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Proposing to expand puzzles’ possible types of scenario

All puzzles I have seen follow the same plot of “rags-to-riches”: you were losing, then the opponent made a mistake which allows some hard-to-see tactic, and now you’re winning if you manage the tactic. It’s a “from lost to winning” scenario. But the “from lost to draw”, “from lost to equal” or “from dead lost to just-mildly-lost” scenarios make sense too, but I have never seen any such. By the way, while searching the forum on this matter, I have found that @IndigoEngun expressed a similar idea a few days ago (see the second-to-last paragraph): lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/puzzles-sometimes-rarelybtw-the-line-in-reply-to-solutions-first-move-isnt-the-most-challenging?page=2#11

As far as I guess, currently all puzzles are generated somewhat this way:

1. A game is analysed for accuracy of play, marking huge drops of evaluation as blunders.
2. For each blunder:
. . . . There is a side that has blundered—let’s call it B (Blundered), and
. . . . There is the other side—let’s call it F (Fine).
. . . . 1. If just before the blunder the evaluation was distinctly in B’s favor, and
. . . . 2. Right after the blunder the evaluation is distinctly in F’s favor, then:
. . . . . . . . 1. Create a new blank puzzle.
. . . . . . . . 2. Start the puzzle’s line with the position right after the blunder.
. . . . . . . . 3. Add moves to the puzzle’s line in a cycle:
. . . . . . . . . . . . 1. For each F’s turn: add the top engine move, if it’s distinctly better than any alternatives, else break out of cycle.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 2. For each B’s turn: just add the top engine move.
. . . . . . . . . . . . Repeat.
. . . . . . . . 4. Delete the useless hanging B’s last move.
. . . . . . . . Now the puzzle is complete: it’s ready to be uploaded to the public pool.

Effectively this algorithm identifies any possible best-play lines which are explicitly comprehensible (2.2.3.1) by human to be best, and which had happened right after a lost position (2.1), and turn to a winning one (2.2). And I criticize the last part, the “from lost to winning”. If we would just omit the conditions 2.1 and 2.2, the algorithm will then also include all scenarios mentioned above.
If we also omit the condition of considering only blunders, and process best-play lines starting from every position in a game, then we would pick up another class of nice scenarios, such as “survive a tactic”: your opponent has some tactic which is possible to resist, but there is only one precise way to. Or, for example, it requires giving up at least a knight—and you must see that, stop there, give up the knight—and thus solve the puzzle.

In short, we’ll just identify best-play-lines-which-are-explicitly-comprehensible-by-human-to-be-best regardless of context in which they occur.

The context is a hint when solving puzzles though: you always know that you must end up significantly better than what you begin with, and you shouldn’t attempt any lines that don’t fit this—you should try better instead. Allowing all contexts would void this hint and make solving harder. The puzzles should therefore be additionally categorized by their type of scenario—just like they are categorized by theme today. That would allow managing them as anyone prefers: for example, enabling only the most understandable “rags-to-riches”, “hold a draw” and “survive a tactic”.

There is possibly a filter to reject some puzzles—such as simply bad exchanges, where the opponent had just taken a defended bishop with their queen. Or where a tactic has more than one good continuation (thus we should abort the puzzle line here), but the win is still unclear for a human. Or maybe there are no such filters, I don’t know nor guess.

Let’s discuss.
Objections, questions, thoughts and opinions are welcome.
(There is something slightly wrong about explicitly stating that, isn’t there?)
Edit:
— fixed the formatting of algorithm (the tabulation is ignored for some reason)
— edited the last sentence of the first paragraph
You are quite right, actually there are books with puzzles (Cheng, Shumilin) where sometimes all you can get is a draw and they are more difficult just because of that... maybe also more instructive.

On the other hand, solving puzzles I've improved a lot in my purely defensive moves (I assume improvement comes from calculating opponent's moves) so the effect is two-way.
@OctoPinky said in #3:
> actually there are books with puzzles where sometimes all you can get is a draw

Sure, but I want them to be on Lichess.
@OctoPinky said in #3:
> solving puzzles I've improved a lot in my purely defensive moves

Sure. But I believe that some of the new types of puzzles would be more effective in training that aspect, and other types would improve us in some even else different ways. And be a lot of fun.
I’ve learned just a few hours ago that the puzzles actually are categorized by their scenario (see the “Goals” section): lichess.org/training/themes, and that there actually is a category of puzzles of “lost to draw” or “lost to equal” (it’s called “Equality”). I surely noticed the “Advantage” and “Crushing” themes before and understood their meaning, but I didn’t remember of them being relevant to the subject.

It isn’t stated in their descriptions (except for “Equality”), but all those categories still seem to necessarily root from a bad position, and always are stories of improving—not surviving.
Huh it’s frustrating how I get the insights of phrasing things well only postfactum.
not all puzzles need a losing side having opponent blunder allowing recovery gain. although it makes for a more spectacular and possibly more visible within horizon challenge.

I think the automatic puzzled, has a few objective themes it can compute, about that sort of scenarii.

But yes, it might not teach how to implement a positionally advantageous not blunder surprise obtained. But I think, it might not be the odds reversal that reduces scenarii, but that the solution be spectacular best move about lesser moves (a peak profile for the first solution move).

Could it be, that having an advantage that is not from recent blunder by opponent, likely to offer less peak best move, and a few good moves..

Isnt't there a style of play, that is working like that even. Less tactical solar flare progress, but little restriction here or there, keeping the lid on opponent freedom, and keeping own choice. Just a thesis of what we might be wanting from puzzles having consequences on the type of scenario we get.

i read above posts a bit late. so you say that about those objective engine themes that are controllable.... So maybe the proportion of such different gain context (from lower to higher, from lower to draw, or else, which I am not sure to have understood, but for the gaining from previous gain case, possibly being as I said, not spectacular on the success/failure automatic challenge). Puzzle ratings and players ratings are not computed from nuanced choice of many good moves, but still some puzzle definition of outcome success or failur acting as wins and losses (no room for drawish successes)...

I think those puzzles, would be good, without any rating scale. more for delibrate puzzling.. like composition problems.. I am brainstoriming in other directions than I have seen.. I am not sure.
To @dboing’s #8.

It’s really hard to understand your thoughts from what you have written. Shall I sort it out with you?
@Hott said in #9:
> To @dboing’s #8.
>
> It’s really hard to understand your thoughts from what you have written. Shall I sort it out with you?

very generous and nice of you. I then have to read your own text carefully­. I work from abstract to detail. I often also work (write) from mind spatial view of things, even if it might be sequential or procedural in essence, I would tend to make it spatial for propoer ability to reason with . That is a theory of self internal processing, that has help me on the long run to survive in a mostly sequential presented world, that written language bind us to. It makes it hard for me to reason well while reading when a tight or logical dense idea is being expressed as a sequential procedure without some backbone map presentation, which might be impossible to write in text..

It also makes me having a hard time aligning is a sequential ordered stream things I see acting in parallel in my visual support.

So. Thank you for showing interest. Very refreshing. I think discussion by chunks is the best way around this curse of mine (when not in certitude or pontification mode, when I can make concise stylish concise punch lines to suggest something I find ubiquitously being avoided in discussions or other similar contexts). In searching for things not yet fully understood, i tend to throw a web of possibilities that come to mind pretty much in a parallel splash. It might be the same for most of us, in varying degrees. but I only know the internals of myself, or some of it, it seems I might not be in the center of the population distribution... (euphemism? understatement?).

So yes. but I have other things already backlogged. I have many irons of varying progressions or todo awareness.

But I think this is a great topic. even just the title. give me time . please. I need to do the work on your text before i start the chopping and slice, and noise reduction discussion by chunks with you. I would not want to make misunderstanding extra loops.. I hope I am not too enthousiastic. You might not have wanted to put your finger in some undetermined cog of my process. I ramble a lot. i will make a post when i will have read correctly this thread. (is a week ETA fog ok?).