I don't mean to be difficult; but i did read the post and clicked the link.
And i just re-read it too.
I still don't understand the problem.
Can anybody ELI5?
And i just re-read it too.
I still don't understand the problem.
Can anybody ELI5?
Take into account 2 things.
-your opponent has no possible win even with the worst play on your part.
-You have theoritical winning chances, but you know your opponent is strong enough to defend it blindfolded.
Now you have to choose:
-abort the game and claim a draw
-feed your obsession to play futile games
I have a feeling that some people who responded here will probably feed their obsession. They seem to fear a "claim draw" option.
They like to keep fighting for a win with only their king, because: "Nothing in the rules says the player can't fight to the bitter end"
The rest of us will probably want to claim a draw.
Dont let the random chess rules other people posted confuse you, claiming a draw in this situation is completely conform the rules of chess.
Lichess recognizes you can still win and therefor all 3 results are still posibile. This is not conform the rules of chess.
So how am i going to claim a draw on lichess?
-to keep moving doesnt even come to my mind
-to offer a draw is really weird, i allready have a draw and like to proceed to a new game without waiting for my opponents approval
-to walk away is not my style, I actually like it here so I usually want a new game
-so with nothing else left, I resign
-your opponent has no possible win even with the worst play on your part.
-You have theoritical winning chances, but you know your opponent is strong enough to defend it blindfolded.
Now you have to choose:
-abort the game and claim a draw
-feed your obsession to play futile games
I have a feeling that some people who responded here will probably feed their obsession. They seem to fear a "claim draw" option.
They like to keep fighting for a win with only their king, because: "Nothing in the rules says the player can't fight to the bitter end"
The rest of us will probably want to claim a draw.
Dont let the random chess rules other people posted confuse you, claiming a draw in this situation is completely conform the rules of chess.
Lichess recognizes you can still win and therefor all 3 results are still posibile. This is not conform the rules of chess.
So how am i going to claim a draw on lichess?
-to keep moving doesnt even come to my mind
-to offer a draw is really weird, i allready have a draw and like to proceed to a new game without waiting for my opponents approval
-to walk away is not my style, I actually like it here so I usually want a new game
-so with nothing else left, I resign
In FIDE's rules I can see no rule covering the case what happens if someone resigns a position that they can't possible lose, so I take that as the resigning player would lose the game.
If you claim a draw in such a position draw should be declared according to the rules however.
Checked again and can't even find there is a rule that gives you right to claim draw when your opponent can't win. I'm surprised.
However there is a rule that says in a position where neither player can't checkmate by any possible sequence of moves the game is drawn automatically.
However there is a rule that says in a position where neither player can't checkmate by any possible sequence of moves the game is drawn automatically.
I thought you always could claim draw if opponent for example only had a king left, but now I can't find it. Have I missed something? Anyone knows?
I found a few in 15 seconds. 6.9, 7.5b, a.4.b/c
Especially a.4.c is interesting. By stopping to move your own flag will fall and then you have a draw since your opponent cannot claim the win as pointed out in a.4.c.
Lichess at the very least, promotes walking away in this situation, by not rewarding a draw to a resign.
Especially a.4.c is interesting. By stopping to move your own flag will fall and then you have a draw since your opponent cannot claim the win as pointed out in a.4.c.
Lichess at the very least, promotes walking away in this situation, by not rewarding a draw to a resign.
6.9 6.9
Except where one of Articles 5.1.a, 5.1.b, 5.2.a, 5.2.b, 5.2.c applies, if a player does not complete the prescribed number of moves in the allotted time, the game is lost by that player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
6.9 applies only if someone has run out of time as I understand.
7.5
a)´If during a game it is found that an illegal move has been completed, the position immediately before the irregularity shall be reinstated. If the position immediately before the irregularity cannot be determined, the game shall continue from the last identifiable position prior to the irregularity. Articles 4.3 and 4.7 apply to the move replacing the illegal move. The game shall then continue from this reinstated position.
If the player has moved a pawn to the furthest distant rank, pressed the clock, but not replaced the pawn with a new piece, the move is illegal. The pawn shall be replaced by a queen of the same colour as the pawn.
b) After the action taken under Article 7.5.a, for the first completed illegal move by a player the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent; for the second completed illegal move by the same player the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
For 7.5 a/b to apply it requires that an illegal move has been completed.
A4c) To claim a win on time, the claimant must stop the chessclock and notify the arbiter. For the claim to be successful, the claimant must have time remaining on his own clock after the chessclock has been stopped. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the claimant cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
A4c) is about how to claim a win on time. That requires your opponents time is out.
I thought there was a rule that you could always claim a draw if your opponet for example only had a king left, but I might be wrong.
Here are the rules. Can't find it.
http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=171&view=article
Except where one of Articles 5.1.a, 5.1.b, 5.2.a, 5.2.b, 5.2.c applies, if a player does not complete the prescribed number of moves in the allotted time, the game is lost by that player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
6.9 applies only if someone has run out of time as I understand.
7.5
a)´If during a game it is found that an illegal move has been completed, the position immediately before the irregularity shall be reinstated. If the position immediately before the irregularity cannot be determined, the game shall continue from the last identifiable position prior to the irregularity. Articles 4.3 and 4.7 apply to the move replacing the illegal move. The game shall then continue from this reinstated position.
If the player has moved a pawn to the furthest distant rank, pressed the clock, but not replaced the pawn with a new piece, the move is illegal. The pawn shall be replaced by a queen of the same colour as the pawn.
b) After the action taken under Article 7.5.a, for the first completed illegal move by a player the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent; for the second completed illegal move by the same player the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
For 7.5 a/b to apply it requires that an illegal move has been completed.
A4c) To claim a win on time, the claimant must stop the chessclock and notify the arbiter. For the claim to be successful, the claimant must have time remaining on his own clock after the chessclock has been stopped. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the claimant cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
A4c) is about how to claim a win on time. That requires your opponents time is out.
I thought there was a rule that you could always claim a draw if your opponet for example only had a king left, but I might be wrong.
Here are the rules. Can't find it.
http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=171&view=article
There was never any such rule in the FIDE laws in general. The only time you are allowed to claim a draw is the 50-move rule, threefold repetition (both cases with scoresheet evidence).
What you might be looking for is in Appendix G, where G.5 and G.6 is most relevant. Firstly, this is not a clause to allow automatic draw claims, but more to offer an escape for players up on position and down on time. Secondly, this relies on human arbiters, which is of course impractical for online play. (Even G.6 ultimately refers to an arbiter, just that the arbiter is not at the venue at the moment of the game.) It is in general difficult to work out what "win by normal means" means at all - it's too open to interpretation. Hence it is better for online chess sites to ignore these cases, in the same way that draw by insufficient material is slightly different in the FIDE laws and on online platforms.
There is no option to claim a draw except for threefold and 50-move claims even in FIDE tournaments (if Appendix G doesn't apply, or if the arbiters do not agree. In FIDE tournaments, if you want to "claim a draw", you can either (a) just wait for your time to run out (b) make 2 illegal moves under 7.5b for the draw (c) just offer a draw to your opponent, who has every right to play further for the draw, or for a loss if he so wants to.
What you might be looking for is in Appendix G, where G.5 and G.6 is most relevant. Firstly, this is not a clause to allow automatic draw claims, but more to offer an escape for players up on position and down on time. Secondly, this relies on human arbiters, which is of course impractical for online play. (Even G.6 ultimately refers to an arbiter, just that the arbiter is not at the venue at the moment of the game.) It is in general difficult to work out what "win by normal means" means at all - it's too open to interpretation. Hence it is better for online chess sites to ignore these cases, in the same way that draw by insufficient material is slightly different in the FIDE laws and on online platforms.
There is no option to claim a draw except for threefold and 50-move claims even in FIDE tournaments (if Appendix G doesn't apply, or if the arbiters do not agree. In FIDE tournaments, if you want to "claim a draw", you can either (a) just wait for your time to run out (b) make 2 illegal moves under 7.5b for the draw (c) just offer a draw to your opponent, who has every right to play further for the draw, or for a loss if he so wants to.
Illion, thanks for information. Then lichess is probably handling the cas of TriggerHappy correctly after all as I understand.
Even if opp only has a king left it then appear like you have to continue playing if he doesn't agree to draw. If you resign you would lose because no rule says a resign would lead to draw when resigning a position impossibly to lose.
Even if opp only has a king left it then appear like you have to continue playing if he doesn't agree to draw. If you resign you would lose because no rule says a resign would lead to draw when resigning a position impossibly to lose.
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